Video Games and Moral Choices

Uploaded by: kirithem
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Episode Eight in my series of video "lectures," co-written with game designer James Portnow. It's time for another Game Design Corner episode, where we look specifically at elements of game design. I can be reached at floydo_animation at yahoo dot com. You can reach James at jportnow at gmail dot com.
We now have a blog! For updates on the progress of the next episode and more gaming discussion, go to: http://videogamesand.blogspot.com
Like the intro/outro music? Download the full tracks here!
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http://www.carbohydrom.net/music/CarboHydroM_-_Penguin_Cap.mp3
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Tags for this video: video games moral choice presentation lecture daniel floyd james portnow game design good evil morality extra credit

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Basically, all the ... ( 3 weeks ago by Praw48)

Basically, all the pointers of a good moral system you mentioned here have been done by Dragonage :P

Array ( 2 weeks ago by totoro1591)

Great video!
Sidenote: My favorite game deals w/this issue in a very frustratingly silly way. I'm talking about DragonQuest 8, where you are given false choices. By that I mean they let you give an answer, but if you answer wrong the game just makes you pick the right answer... XD

Some games think ... ( 2 weeks ago by totoro1591)

Some games think it's fun to give you a choice and then force you to pick the "right" answer... I find that sort of thing irritating but kinda hilarious at the same time...
Anyway, Great Video!!!

Almost 1337 good. ... ( 2 weeks ago by frag971)

Almost 1337 good. This video is clearly quantified.

fable 3 i think ... ( 2 weeks ago by Tacoon64)

fable 3 i think will sell this idea like a presedent trying to keep promisses from funded money. anyway i hope so?

Very well-done ... ( 2 weeks ago by thetanmancan)

Very well-done video. Two thoughts:
1. You're assuming people are striving for the good choice. Most people I know always try to do the evil thing, though I think your point in creating a struggle through ambiguity still stands.
2. It's possible that the reason those morality bars still exist because people like to have their choices quantified. I know I like it when I do something in a game and I get immediate feedback and meaning from it, personally.

You should check ... ( 2 weeks ago by BenevolentMuffinKing)

You should check out "Epic Mickey," a Disney game by Warren Spector that seems to be taking an interesting approach to moral choices. Instead of "good or evil," the choice is "responsible or mischievous." And despite the fact that the two tools of the game are paint (restoring) and thinner (destructive), it's not the use of one versus the other that fulfills your choice but how you use them. Spector also claims that there isn't a "morality meter," but how you act changes how people treat you.

I'm kind of ... ( 1 week ago by MararPatrunjica)

I'm kind of disappointed with this video, you haven't even mentioned Planescape: Torment or The Witcher, 2 games that are filled with ambiguous choices. Not to mention the fact that you're "chart" idea is implemented in the form of chaos/order and good/evil (with various degrees of succes) in all of the D&D based games ever made. The factions concept was also present in both the gothic series and the witcher, and it's effects were identical with what you said in the video.

This whole: "There ... ( 1 week ago by GreyWolfLeaderTW)

This whole: "There is no such thing as definite right or definite wrong" only creates confusion and a loss of purpose to the argument. It is now just sides, both with pros and cons, good arguments and bad arguments (which is quite laughable because we ironically use the words good and bad to describe how well thought out the arguments are), but no real end in sight. What you really mean is "Having a single moral choice meter merely simplifies the game and thus makes it too easy."

Ambiguous means ... ( 1 week ago by GreyWolfLeaderTW)

Ambiguous means vague, secret, obscure, incomprehensible, unable to solve. This implies and gives credence to the idea of moral relativism, which is utter bull. We all know there *IS* such a thing as right ways, wrong ways, best way, and worst way to get through a choice, many of us use the words good or evil synonymously with them. Rather, people make choices based on their principles. The absolutely and eternally true ideas which they use as their moral anchor.

I agree with tons ... ( 1 week ago by GreyWolfLeaderTW)

I agree with tons of the stuff that you said here in this video, but guess I have a few gripes in response to this video which have nothing to do with the material itself presented (the concept of factional reputation meters is a fascinating and looks like it would be a very good game design choice for example).
So here it goes!
First: there is no such thing as "ambiguous" moral choices, just "difficult" moral choices.

Here is another way ... ( 1 week ago by GreyWolfLeaderTW)

Here is another way of putting it. That Color Wheel you have? The center of that wheel is Good, the edges of that wheel are Bad.
Why? Because when you move to the edges of that wheel, the more you corrupt the inherently good concepts. This is the real conflict of good & evil. What people constantly seem to forget is this:
Good & Evil are not merely social/political concepts. Good is proper use, purifying, and progress, while Evil is the misuse, corruption, and stagnation/regression.

But, in order for ... ( 1 week ago by GreyWolfLeaderTW)

But, in order for this argument to work, there cannot be a "universal definition" of good or evil.
But I disagree, and I say that there are absolute moral truths and principals that we need to use to make the best choices every time we are faced.

I guess my problem ... ( 1 week ago by GreyWolfLeaderTW)

I guess my problem is that at 9:00, you say that life very rarely has us choosing between good or evil. I argue that choosing between good and evil is the core of the human experience. You make the meta-ethical moral relativism arguement that we "muddling through" life, choosing the options we believe to be best based upon our own perception, and at the end we end up with multiple ideas of what is good.

It saddens me that ... ( 1 week ago by darksaber64x)

It saddens me that this is my favorite one of your "lectures" that you've made, and it seems to be the least popular. But good job nonetheless.

Nicely done. One ... ( 1 week ago by AliIKarimi)

Nicely done. One suggestion is to look at Fallout2 and compare it to Fallout 3. In Fallout 2 there is no good and evil , only alternate endings based on the choices you made (Dragon Age pretty much does the same thing). What makes this even more interesting was that the "good" option did not always give you the "good" ending - in one town for example, if you kill the 'evil' gangster, the sheriff becomes a dictator and the town dies, but if you killed the 'good' sheriff, the town thrives !
Ali

any type of person ... ( 1 week ago by MrNatelol)

any type of person involved in the creation of any type of video game SHOULD WATCH THESE VIDEOS!!

If you take a look ... ( 1 week ago by zenron001)

If you take a look at infamous, we could all agree that its moral choice system is flawed, but the some of the choices themselves are sound. It struck me as odd in one case where you were asked to either save the woman the main character is in love with, or saving the lives of 6 doctors. Now to me, neither answer is good or bad, but the game labels it as such anyway. Simply taking out the good/evil bar from that would actually lead to some worthwhile decisions.

Sadly yet another ... ( 1 week ago by Jaesun999)

Sadly yet another game reviewer that is unaware that there were RPG's before Knight's of the Old Republic. Might want to do a bit of actual research on it someday.

Very intelligent! ... ( 1 week ago by LimeLou)

Very intelligent!
I agree with you that the morality system is cliché, but I enjoy games like Fallout 3. It's indeed simple at times, but the idea that I get to chose between 'Good and Bad' doesn't always have to be boring. if it's worked out really well, then I don't mind.

Good, in depth ... ( 6 days ago by Dickking666)

Good, in depth presentation. You really could've included the witcher, since it's a prime example of moral ambiguity and decisions having an actual impact on the experience of a game. Fallout 3 really has just one ambiguous choice (the one you mentioned), and, while they do have an impact on the game world, it still leaves a lot to be desired. The main quest line doesn't change at all. 95% of the time the repercussion of your choice is mainly cosmetic and doesn't affect anything besides...GNR.

Sorry but the ... ( 5 days ago by unacuentadeyutub)

Sorry but the moment I heard and saw Fallout 3 and "Good writing" in the same sentence, I quit watching.
Seriously? The writing? Can you really, argumentatively and empirically defend that FO3 has "great" writing?
If you are not willing to criticise then why do this?

Am i the only one ... ( 5 days ago by Thingamajigs)

Am i the only one who wishes Fallout 3 has the "Colour Wheel" now?
Darn it, you've ruined my gaming experience with your superior ideas :P I sure hope these get implimented in games in the near future.
Oh well, at least there's still mods. You console gamers are screwed, though. :D

Array ( 2 days ago by kiintlord)

Go play Fallout 1 & 2 Daniel Floyd. Or even Arcanum. Or the Ultimas. And FO3 is a success at morality choices. Great writing? Wut? Maybe your vlog is not for my tastes, I dunno...

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